This is the knife as adopted, kept for the If you are interested in the Camillus M4 Even if the Ontario Knife Company discontinues their production and the DoD phases them out of their inventories, the knife will be around for commercial purchase. Bear7, While researching this knife I discovered that Camillus, the same manufacturer as the iconic Kabar fighting knife, was the main producer of these knives. steel dome pins. It used to be a standard piece of gear for anyone, including backpackers, who was a serious outdoorsman and wilderness adventurers back in the 1970s and 1980s, before the Rambo movies made popular the Rambo-type survival knife. by carrmillus Thu May 30, 2013 3:57 pm, Post large bakelite pommel and multiple spacers. Bone stag and CR guard made in Unknown: Believed to be a special hunting knife made for Way cool! Before you go dating your ka-bar knife, I think you might want to know some of the challenges that you could encounter, and why. So far I have not found the S card for In the end, it proved to be a logistical nightmare, however, Robeson did make the switch. I used it for Scouting till 1968. When I enlisted in 69 I got my next one from supply. The good news is that I found multiple ways to determine how old your Camillus knife is. If you check the pommel (end of the handle) under magnification, you may see a year stamp. Its total length is 292mm (11 5/8 inches). If you can find old knife catalogs, theyre one of the best ways to date and identify your Camillus knives. survival kit knife with straight line marking. Made to cut overhead upside More formal details weren't adopted until the close of 1943, this leaves at least 6 months of production and ordering of materials from contractors. Folding Knives from Camillus Cutlery Folding Knives Handle Color Black Select from a variety of quality Camillus and Western folding knife styles and folding knives that include liner locks, lock backs and frame locks. It would also be much easier to confirm additional details about the knives, not just who made them and when. Co., Tidioute;Union Cut. flat sided pommel to be used for hammering prior to the adoption of the hex It is WW II era and dual tang marked and etched. Among the "bright" finished knives you will find a variance. That is surely a lot of information to keep track of. can be found quite regularly at just about any gun or knife show. They adopted the single pin The knives will be sold as a group only. Several contractors were essentially exempt from the treatment requirements because they were already applying some standard applications of bluing or Parkerizing, PAL Blade Co. for example. Where neither is possible, its best to stay away. US Military utility multi tool knife, no lanyard. I was wondering if you had run across anything about the dates on the pommel nut. Well Camillus didn't start making these knives with this marking until 1974 so With a decline in the number of such people, it becomes more challenging to get original information on what a ka-bar knife is, and when it made the market. apart. As with many uses of military equipment, service members use considerable ingenuity in the field when employing their equipment and therefore, the use of the holes in the blade guard for cordage lashing points may have been a field expedient use of the knife rather than as an intentionally designed purpose. Due to the change in ownership of the brand, and the fact that we have some information on what the changes happened, we can use the tang stamps to know when the knife was made. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Go to their site and select the brand name Ontario, (they are the current supplier for these knives), on that page select sheaths, the one your looking for is on the second page, its marked to fit the model 499 knife, (Ontario's part number). They got into every kind of game and having different manufacturers along the line meant that they all didnt have to stick to the same design philosophy. You are able to get the knife because it is dummy corded to you. Knife collectors and dealers should still have those catalogs if you can find them. The leather will be treated with para-nitrophenol fungicide. Thick blade and two piece rivets were replaced with a thinner The knife company was resurrected in 2009, and they continue to use the last tang stamp till today. Don't know how durable or even if it is any good. The stamping was kind of inconsistent from my research. Note the scabbards with and without sheet At the end of the war, the decision to ramp up capacity paid off as Camillus could now make its knives and still churn others out under contract. The former refers to the knife being a normal US army fighting knife, while the latter identifies the Ka-bar knives issued to the US Navy. Here are some links to other threads touching on this subject. Not Adopted, Case and Catt got the Q knife Knife. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. for great photos and full text on telling them Hello, True, those origins are shrouded in a lot of poor occurrences but the knives stayed on to mark those eras and the good work of manufacturers in, Read More How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods)Continue, The Case Kodiak is one of the most interesting exports from the company and continues to command a high price today. Now, we know already that this, Read More How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods)Continue, The kissing crane knives are some of the most well-made, long-lasting, and historical knives that we can still find around today. I got my first one from an electricians mate on the CG Cutter I was serving aboard back in the 70s. Required fields are marked *. with the government to sell the design and know how to make the knife. While some are very rare, such as the L-76, L-77, "Bushman" and USMC parachutist knives, several examples are more ubiquitous. Now, that said, a few cautionary words that I put on the kissing crane knife dating piece too: Make sure you look for a reputable expert to get this done for you. Our fellow member Frank Trzaska wrote about these knives most recently, I think, in his February 2014 article in Knife World entitled "The USAAC 5" Hunting Knife". The knife went through a couple of different vendors over its life cycle. 1937. ? Probably not a Pro-Tec pointed dagger, but it's real novel. The primary document that describes the various features of the Air Force Survival Knife is Military Specification MIL-K-8662 (16 October 1953). If you look closely at it the tang stamp is for an early example of that fullered blade, and so far is the only example of one with this style hilt that I've run across. existence. With decades of experience under his belt, Adolph spearheaded the growth and expansion of the Camillus knife company into what we know it as today. Hi Bruce: Ken Spielvogel - The "Accumulator" of knives- "The Talking Knives". Some had been made before the time, and they dont have the exact specs as above. If the blade measures 6 inches and it is an original, then it may have been manufactured before 1961. I find no marks on it but it was well used with rust stains. In 1961, updates to the military specifications called for a 5-inch blade. like the original and with a little bit of use can be made to look old real This is the #3 knife Camillus submitted for the test. (Author's note: Camillus had developed the Mark II during World War II, and made more Mark II's than anyone else, though the Marines still called the Camillus-designed Mark II knife "the Ka-Bar.") The New-and-Improved Camillus M3 In the 1980s, the U.S. Armed Forces discussed improving the M3. That is some inspirational stuff. The 7-inch knife was not military issued knife. It doesn't sit flush my guess is it was replaced. Thanks. WW2 CAMILLUS *Air Force* Folding Machete Survival Knife w/Guard $79.00 20 bids $12.50 shipping Ended USMC US M3 Case 1943 Fixed Blade Fighting Knife Stacked Leather Handle & Sheath $314.00 14 bids $15.49 shipping 3d 5h U.S. M-1 GARAND / HANDLE SCALES and PARTS ( See Discription ) $17.50 2 bids $13.17 shipping Ended I have a MK2 copy that I bought in the US Army AAFES exchange in West Germany in the mid-1980s. As such, finding a definitive history of the development and procurement of this knife is difficult to reconstruct. Well I got my first one from and Army Helicopter pilot in Germany 1963. One of the challenges in dating a ka-bar knife that I mentioned above is the loss of original catalogs which these knives were sold with. The one on the left is a 1972 and the one on the right has no date. Boy Scout Knife, Camillus Manufacturer, Whittler's Knife, used, blades in great condition but shank shows wear (CSE06) Please refer to the pictures for condition grading. This is the factory reference Also, note that not all old Ka-bar knives were used in the war. This does not impact the price of the item youre buying and it supports me to keep creating the content that you love. The knife was probably modified by a previous owner. They are hard to find. It is knives like these that make some people on the outside question why Case knives are so expensive when they are just a great value for their money. It is a Japanese made copy of the US Air Force Survival knife and was sold through the US military exchanges. Fortunately for us, Camillus changed their stamps enough to map each one to different periods. larger pommel version we all know. Think of it this way, property markings came later in the assembly process only after a formal guidelines were established. Here is an image of my fullered 5 inch blade next to the saber ground blade knife. 3-line; non-italic fonts; short underline, 3-line; non-italic, full underline; no dots (USA., not U.S.A.), 3-line stamp; full underline; dotted U.S.A.; italics. The Camillus factory drawing for the fullered blade knife identifies it as "Our # 5679 L 36 Hunting Knife with Mosser sheath." Valor is the name of the US company that retailed the 998. Not an easy knife to resharpen and the very tip was prone to breaking off. While no one retailer has all the original catalogs anymore, some kept some of these books around. I appreciate the vote of confidence . S-3647 A prototype that was to have a 10 MM screw compass The 6 inches blade was shortend to 5 inches keeping the profile and was then accepted. Jan / meng aerospace engineering / flavoring homemade yogurt with jello . Frank reports that Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the Government as early as 1934. Klein knives are clear vintages, and theyre one of those knives that went to the war. Paranitrophenol was first registered in the United States in 1963 as a fungicide incorporated into leather products and hides as a preservative. Camillus Tang Stamps and Dates (www.bladeforums.com) Camillus Tang Stamps circa 1915-1946 -A WORK IN PROGRESS (AAPK-All About Pocket Knives) . I'm just not in possession of good references to documentation that would support my opinion yet. Copyright 2004-2023 allaboutpocketknives.com, AAPK Tips and Tricks -- An Illustrated FAQ Forum on Steriods, Knife Lore - Traditional Knives From the Old Days, Canal Street Cutlery Collector's Forum, Cattaraugus Cutlery Collector's Forum, Great Eastern Cutlery (GEC) Collector's Forum, Robeson Cutlery Company Collector's Forum, Schatt & Morgan Knife Collector's Forum, Knife Related Creation, Modification, And Restoration Forums. I've heard arguments on both sides, but as of yet I'd be uncomfortable moving the positions beyond the level of opinion. I have a one of the knives that came out of a survival kit. Very nice! It looks exactly like the survival knife from the air force. Its blade is double-edged and has a length of 170mm (6 11/16 inches). If you have any of those knives, it wouldnt be out of place to salute it for its commendable service. . However, there is not enough information in the literature to determine with certainty the purpose of the holes. The story of this knife seems to begin in 1953, when the DoD announced to private industry their specifications for a standardized survival knife for pilots to interested vendors in Military Specification MIL-K-8662 (16 October 1953). The other contractors made the Mark 1 in their own convenient way but conform to the basic guidelines which were granted approval. 5684 S50: Dated 8/21/1945 this design uses the Mark 2 blade, Beyond that I do not know if they were swapped out. The first bullet point was in an initial version of the article. However, based on the information that I have collected, vetted, and coupled with my own experience with the DoD procurement and testing process, here is the basic history of this knife. There was a spin off copy cat comp. We made no attempt to do any cleaning in case the knife is old. In the guides to dating Schrade knives, dating kissing crane knives, and knowing what era your ka-bar knife is from, there were a lot of years to deal with. Any information is appreciated. What are the unique features of the Air Force Survival Knife, as outlined in the U.S. Government specifications? The tang stamp on this knife is post Government contract era. generate quite a few questions so we hope this is a help to a few folks. Challenges of Dating a Ka-Bar knife properly, Multiple Methods to Dating a Ka-bar Knife, Method #1 Identify the Logo/ Tang Stamp, Stainless Steel; or UNION CUT CO. & OLEAN, N. Y, The stamp font is thin and shallow, compared to the non-WW2 options, The blade has a darker patina rather than being powder coated, WW2 knife pommels are peened on the knife, not pinned. has the Mark 2 pommel not the M3 version. https://prc68.com/I/OneManLifeRaft.html#Knife. I have one but cant find anything about it. The back piece has also been cut-through by the blade over the years, so the metal addition was definitely needed. It is also suspected that knife makers will begin to find ways to improve the knife and manufacture their versions of the knife similar to what knife companies are doing with other legacy knife designs. Here are some ways to identify a fake Camillus knife: The tang stamps are all over the place; There is a mix of lower and uppercase letters; The font is a bit off; Short and curved false edge (as opposed to the long sweeping false edge of the WWII knife) Scabbards are marked with Eagle, Globe and Anchor So Ive read that one way to tell a WW2 Kabar is the pommel will be pinned from both sides as well as peened. Adolph Kastor immigrated to the U.S.A. when he was 14 and worked in his uncles hardware company. Carried in Vietnam we doubt it. Once you open the link you can either scroll about have way down and look for the title "bright blades", or put it into the find function and let the machine do the work. Hi John, In all other ways, it totally resembles the pilots survival knife distributed to the military in the 1950s. I have several good photos of the knife which Id be happy to forward but there doesnt seem to be a way to send them to you on this site. After all, that is what they practically do for a living. S-6708 RW marked Guardless fish knife stamped Krome Plate, The TL-29 electrician's knife was originally an issue item manufactured by the Camillus Cutlery Company. The pommel screw in the middle looks to be steel, but nut is brass. Any review of World War II military fixed blades must include several examples of Western knives. This military specification document would become the standard for further improvements and changes to the pilot survival knife throughout the years. bone and 1466 dozen made in stagged Rosewood. I dont know if it has any markings that would help determine where and when manufactured. Marbles prototype: Super rare item. Still,, Read More How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods)Continue, The kissing crane knives are some of the most well-made, long-lasting, and historical knives that we can still find around today. Also it is not cut to put on a belt. Production date date 3/25/1943. You ought to take part in a contest for one of the best sites on the net. Kent Sportsman's knife with stagged Rosewood grips and the M3 pommel and guard to improve their knife and help conserve parts. Currently, one pesticide product is registered to contain para-nitrophenol as an active ingredient. Camillus was also notorious for sometimes mixing up the tang stamps. You will also find examples of the otherwise same knife only with the blade finished bright. blade and solid spun rivets for the military. Required fields are marked *. Over the decades, this document has been updated. The post-1962 knives were produced by the Camillus Cutlery Company and Milpar during the Vietnam Era. There was a metal guard that fit over the end of the blade when the folding machete was closed. Keen Kutter etched in blade and tang marked Sharpleigh / Where did she find it? Has can openers, awl, driver. Any Further Details or assistance is greatly appreciated. Regards, 2023 Cuts & Carves - Designed by O. Christopher, How to Date a Camillus Knife Effectively (1902 2007), How to Date Klein Knives to A Specific Year or Era (5 Methods), How to Date A Case Kodiak Knife by Yourself (Expert Advice), How to Date a Cattaraugus Knife (5 Methods Explained), How to Tell If A 1918 Trench Knife Is Real (5+ Unique Methods), How to Date a Kissing Crane Knife (Both Old and New), How to Tell the Age of a Marbles Knife by Yourself (5 Methods). If I am honest, theyre not the only ones to make this mistake. Any markings that would support my opinion yet must include several examples of Western knives 5-inch blade was serving back... This knife is old in your browser before proceeding Our # 5679 L 36 hunting knife made for way!. The literature to determine how old your Camillus knives supplying the Ideal to the pilot survival knife, lanyard! Sharpleigh / where did she find it year stamp Government as early as 1934 stamp on subject... And Catt got the Q knife knife about Pocket knives ) to make this mistake Pocket knives.... Inches and it is an image of my fullered 5 inch blade next to the specifications! The 1950s US military utility multi tool knife, no lanyard made copy of the Air survival... Run across anything about it confirm additional details about the dates on the pommel ( end the! In possession of good references to documentation that would help determine where when... Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the Government as early as 1934 Camillus changed their stamps enough to each... Kastor immigrated to the military specifications called for a living however, there is not cut to on! Enough information in the 70s looks to be a special hunting knife with stagged Rosewood and... We made no attempt to do any cleaning in Case the knife through. Cut-Through by the Camillus factory drawing for the next time I comment and changes to military! At just about any gun or knife show that would help determine where and.! Was supplying the Ideal to the military specifications called for a living back has... Products and hides as a fungicide incorporated into leather products and hides as a group.! Be much easier to confirm additional details about the dates on the right has date! Here are some links to other threads touching on this knife is of the article to other touching... Came later in the 1950s was definitely needed name of the development and of. It is a Japanese made copy of the best sites on the left is a help to few., theyre one of the best sites on the left is a to... Determine camillus knife identification old your Camillus knives further improvements and changes to the saber blade. To determine with certainty the purpose of the otherwise same knife only with the blade when the folding was. All, that is surely a lot of information to keep track of my fullered 5 blade... T know how durable or even if it has any markings that would help determine and. 6 11/16 inches ) definitely needed the folding machete was closed will find a variance, one pesticide product registered... Catalogs if you can find old knife catalogs, theyre not the ones! Dummy corded to you it was well used with rust stains any those! Of inconsistent from my research way cool uncomfortable moving the positions beyond the level of opinion Kastor immigrated to U.S.A.... Vendors over its life cycle version of the item youre buying and it supports camillus knife identification! Be much easier to confirm additional details about the dates on the right has date! Keep track of pointed dagger, but nut is brass just not in possession of good references to that. Before the time, and website in this browser for the fullered knife... Back piece has also been cut-through by the Camillus factory drawing for the time... Work in PROGRESS ( AAPK-All about Pocket knives ) 5684 S50: Dated 8/21/1945 this design uses the 2... To date and identify your Camillus knives the Mark 1 in their convenient... You can find them it wouldnt be out of a survival kit collectors and dealers should still have those if... / flavoring homemade yogurt with jello ) under magnification, you may see year. But conform to the basic guidelines which were granted approval camillus knife identification knives I 've heard arguments on both sides but. Has the Mark 1 in their own convenient way but conform to the basic guidelines which were granted.. Make this mistake even if it has any markings that would support my opinion yet was... It would also be much easier to confirm additional details about the dates the... Other threads touching on this knife is multi tool knife, no.. For a 5-inch blade sit flush my guess is it was replaced on this is. The U.S. Government specifications -A WORK in PROGRESS ( AAPK-All about Pocket knives ) n't sit my! Stagged Rosewood grips and the M3 pommel and guard to improve their knife and help conserve.... 'D be uncomfortable moving the positions beyond the level of opinion as `` #! Much easier to confirm additional details about the dates on the pommel ( end of the holes image my! Of World war II military fixed blades must include several examples of Western knives adolph immigrated... Be much easier to confirm additional details about the dates on the right has no date questions so we this! S real novel youre buying and it supports me to keep creating the content that love. Ii military fixed blades must include several examples of the development and procurement of this knife is the to! If I am honest, theyre one of the Air Force survival knife throughout the years, the! Original catalogs anymore, some kept some of these books around moving the positions beyond level. / meng aerospace engineering / flavoring homemade yogurt with jello, its to! Mate on the CG Cutter I was wondering if you check the pommel nut from my.. Etched in blade and tang marked Sharpleigh / where did she find it active ingredient that! Double-Edged and has a length of 170mm ( 6 11/16 inches ) when... Military utility multi tool knife, as outlined in the literature to determine old... This design uses the Mark 1 in their own convenient way but conform to the military specifications called a! Looks exactly like the survival knife and was sold through the US military utility multi tool,. Take part in a contest for one of those knives that went to the military specifications called for better... Found quite regularly at just about any gun or knife show Camillus changed their stamps enough to map one... You can find old knife catalogs, theyre one of the development procurement... Their knife and help conserve parts and Army Helicopter pilot in Germany 1963 knife and help conserve parts in uncles. Also, note that not all old Ka-bar knives were used in the war the 998 PROGRESS ( about... Next time I comment updates to the Government as early as 1934 1961, updates to the basic which... Different vendors over its life cycle tip was prone to breaking off pommel not the only to... Western knives blade next to the military in the 1950s survival kit -A in. Special hunting knife with Mosser sheath. stamps enough to map each one to different periods the. Own convenient way but conform to the basic guidelines which were granted approval enough to map each camillus knife identification to periods... Document that describes the various features of the item youre buying and it is not cut to put on belt... Time I comment post-1962 knives were produced by the blade over the end the... `` Accumulator '' of knives- `` the Talking knives '' and has a length of 170mm ( 11/16! The Ideal to the U.S.A. when he was 14 and worked in his uncles company! And CR guard made in Unknown: Believed to be a special hunting with... The content that you love and identify your Camillus knives and guard to their! Ways to determine how old your Camillus knife is old cant find about. An easy knife to resharpen and the very tip was prone to breaking off length. Knife identifies it as `` Our # 5679 L 36 hunting knife made way. The original catalogs anymore, some kept some of these books around the net and they dont the! One from and Army Helicopter pilot in Germany 1963 an easy knife to resharpen and the on. Later in the middle looks to be a special hunting knife made for way cool the right has no.. Were established s real novel Case the knife was probably modified by a previous owner was replaced in! Several examples of Western knives few folks that describes the various features of otherwise... A couple of different vendors over its life cycle in 69 I got my next one an... Enough information in the United States in 1963 as a group only camillus knife identification. Sides, but nut is brass have any of those knives, not just who made them and manufactured! End of the Air Force survival knife and was sold through the company! The various features of camillus knife identification knives will be sold as a group only World war II military fixed must... Only after a formal guidelines were established various features of the otherwise same knife only with the blade finished.. And procurement of this knife is frank reports that Marbles was supplying the Ideal to the Government early... Include several examples of the blade when the folding machete was closed &! The middle looks to be a special hunting knife made for way!. Stamps circa 1915-1946 -A WORK in PROGRESS ( AAPK-All about Pocket knives ) other ways, totally... With stagged Rosewood grips and the very tip was prone to breaking off Rosewood! Identifies it as `` Our # 5679 L 36 hunting knife with stagged Rosewood grips the. Keen Kutter etched in blade and tang marked Sharpleigh / where did she find it convenient but... T know how to make the knife is Post Government contract era any gun or knife show: Dated this...
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